Related products. I have just bought gauges. Components Coils, Heaters, Motors, etc. Lasers don't do well on vent temps, a stick thermometer is better in that application. If there is a resource I should read first to save you time, let me know. Safe but sorry! The approval is very legal one, governed by the U.S. EPA. B. I remember I had the wrong seals and it leaked some oil, so I put some more in.Bohica - I tested the pressures. J.Harris said: Or if you want to do it like they do in Mexico you can use propane, it's an excellent refrigerant but highly flammable. Its cylinders are colored white. Measure what you have now.3) Go back to the page in step one, and find the largest condensor you can put in your vehicle. If not, you just don't know unless a test is performed. Is there a source of valves by, say, eaton number? R134a vs R12 - What is the Differences? - Rx Mechanic At this point it is time to make an appointment with the a/c shop. AC R12 to R134A Conversion | MR2 Owners Club Forum It will work and there will be very little, in any difference in performance.As Chick stated, the difference is only the gas used in the sensor tube. Generally, the new amount is 75-85% of the quantity advised by the manufacturer. Production of R12 ceased in 1996, although it can still be reclaimed, purified, and resold, and small cans of New Old Stock R12 are still widely available on eBay and Craigslist. For those of you who are considering what the cost is for R12 you can think of it this way: Dont go out to dinner this weekend. Big . If you have 10 ounces of oil in the system, that is contributing to the poor performance as well. I used a full can of evap cleaner. Some say that a chemical reaction can harm the A/C very badly as R134a reacts with mineral oil in some way. The AC usually does not work at all. Some compressor manufacturers or OEMs suggest PAG type oil for R134a. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve why is miles raney not on homestead rescue June 21, 2022. manila mayor candidates 2022 R404a for freezing of product. Failure to abide by the EPA regulations can result in expensive fines for either you or your service technician. The general practice of charging the system with 15% less refrigerant adds to the thermal deficiency of R134a. You should keep in mind that recharging your air conditioner improperly could result in more serious damage. Is that why expansion valves are specific to R12 or R134A? Instead of using R12, its preferable to use R134a because it is very easy to find in the market, its sold at an affordable price, and is environmentally friendly. R-134a XV for R-134a use. R12 and R22 are both now banned by the EPA in the United States. Your decision could be made based on economics, environmental concerns, or both. Also, if you want to know what happens if you put R134a in an R12 system, you should first confirm if the R12 system can be replaced or if the refrigerants can be mixed. Can I order a valve based on the original eaton number? The sticker typically has a place to note the amount of refrigerant used, the type of oil and amount of oil, the technicians sign off or name and the date of the conversion. It is made up of carbon, hydrogen, and fluorine. Depending on which circuit diagram fits your car (cough, no vin list exists) you have either one or two switches controlling the aux fan. The original expansion valves work very well with R134a. The difference between the two is about 10,000 btu/h. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve This implies that the discharge pressure of the compressor should be moderate so it can produce the refrigerants condensation in the condenser at the atmospheric temperature. If the charge is low the compressor will cycle on/off in the max AC position. Osuagwu Solomon is a certified mechanic with over a decade of experience in the mechanic garage, and he has over five years of experience in the writing industry. Differences between R-12 and R-134a systems: 1. These two refrigerants are the older types and are not used in newer refrigeration and air conditioning systems. By: james smith underoath; Comments: 0 . Then I'll put the ball valve in on the coolant and test it and see what we have. and he synthesized R-134a in 1936, 5 years after R-12 was . For instance you can evacuate FRIGC FR-12 into a refrigerant recovery bottle that has R134a in it or visa versa. 42 (at best) w/ 134A in 2000 isuzu trooper. Put a relay on the compressor clutch to the aux fan (I like that idea - makes a lot of sense)How does that sound? If 50 degrees across the cond. There is a lot of differences between the R12 and the R134a fittings, you can't mistake them. First, differences in physical properties: 1, insoluble R12 compressor oil is used (to reduce the lubricant) 2, dissolved sealing materials are used (resulting in refrigerant leakage) 3, easy to damp (so easy to internal . Shorting the plug for the refrigerant switch should run the fan when the compressor is on. A thermostatic expansion valve (TXV) (see Figure 1) is a refrigeration and air conditioning throttling device that controls the amount of refrigerant liquid injected into a system's evaporatorbased on the evaporator outlet temperature and pressurecalled the superheat. This works when the R12 charge specification is listed in pounds. What effect would it have on performance, if any?At the moment, the ac is acting up - will work fine for about 15 minutes and then slowly the vent temperatures rise until the compressor switches off. Hence, let us continue to fix it. Catalog E-1, Thermostatic & Automatic Expansion Valves / Page 1 Table of Contents . You do not however need to replace all the o-rings or seals for a simple conversion, it is simply a logical thing to do when and if the time comes to work or replace certain components because of age issues. -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." The condenser water inlet temperature and flow rate are controlled with the use of a . Nick, I hear you - there maybe nothing to do here. The best replacement for R134a is R1234yf, while R12 refrigerant replacement was R134a. Also, it can be used with all types of compressors. Gain access to our free AOP (Ask a Professional) Section to get real answers for your questions. It's best to determine on a case-by-case basis while monitoring system pressures and output air temperature. So if the TXV is OK, and the too much oil situation is not a big problem, then I wonder why the compressor is switching off after about 15 minutes of cooling? The car never overheats, if that has any import. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valvewarning signs for a deteriorating patient with covid 19 infection 2022.07.03 18:36 18:36 The name of the oil is Polyol Ester (POE). Consider using the newer valve, even with 134a stamped on the valve. Pray I can let some oil out of the compressor without losing my precious R12. ing the expansion valve, a maximum opening superheat of 7F, and a standard factory air test superheat setting. A/C R12 to R134a Conversion Success | IH8MUD Forum Make sure to get the R12 EXP valve if that is the way you go. I put in a new (not reman) compressor (R4 I believe it is) in my merc 240D, new drier, new expansion valve, new o-rings, nylog. It is perhaps possible to locate a unit with a company that purchases close out or distressed merchandise. . Its among the greenhouse gases and will keep adding the current problem of heat not leaving the earths atmosphere. Paul -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. Best for varieties of operating conditions: Its boiling point is -21.6 Celsius. $21 . A/C receiver difference between R12 and R134a? R12 is CFC: Even though R12 is one of the most commonly used refrigerants, it is CFC. I'm thinking of jumping the temp switch and leaving the fan on to see how it does. The oil used in R12 and R134a are different and not compatible. It is usually sold under the brand name, Freon 12. The bad thing is I don't know what to do about it. I'll report back on the aux fan on performance next. R134a has a smaller molecule than R12 so R134a will leak out sooner than R12. The problem with using an approved alternative refrigerants other than R134a is that when the system is serviced it requires certain types of fittings, labels and dedicated equipment. R12 systems used mineral oil, but unfortunately mineral oil doesn't dissolve in R134a. R-134A has a slightly lower pressure at evaporator temperatures (30-40 degrees), but R-134a also has a much higher pressure at condenser temperatures (120-150 degrees). Moreso, it had been banned. How an A/C Expansion Valve Works. and recharged with mineral oil and 2.2 lbs R12. In most cases, the systems used have varied components, designs, and service ports. There are R134a specific valves that operate at a slightly different pressure, but not for any "old" automotive application that I'm aware of. But, what is considered a good temperature differential across the condensor? 1) Warm Air From Vents. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. What was the ambient when you took that reading?Jumpering the aux fan is a common thing here in the desert. of coiled cap tube on VCR system with R134a. Above this temperature, the saturation pressure of R134a is higher than that of R12; below, it is lower. Most importantly, the oil used in the plant must always be compatible with the refrigerant used. I mean, really a lot. and he synthesized R-134a in 1936, 5 years after R-12 was . Environmental Impact: When R134a escapes into the atmosphere, it contributes to global warming. The cost of recharging the air conditioner is between $150 to $500. It can be used applications like walk-in coolers, food and dairy display cases, domestic refrigerators, and beverage dispensers and vending machines. Its chemical symbol is CH2FCF3. Yes it will work with either Refrigerant! When the sensor detects the refrigerant leak the sniffers lights glow and the sniffer makes a noise. Also the new quick connect fittings for the high & low side. R134a has a smaller molecule than R12 so R134a will leak out sooner than R12. Whether R134a performs as well as R12 in any given a/c system depends upon system components and the amount of R134a used. R134a is otherwise called 1,1,1,2 Tetrafluoroethane, Florasol 134a, Freon 134a, Norflurane (INN) or HFC 134a. What is the refrigerant property involved that has caused this? The best oil that runs well with R134a is PAG oil or Polyalkylene Glycol. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve The oil used in R12 systems is not compatible with R134a refrigerant. This would be a custom install, there is no "drop-in" condensor upgrade for that car.Check for proper fan operation, and clean the air path on both the condensor & radiator. The chemical composition of R12 and R134a differ. The common problem when converting from R12 to R134a is lack of knowledge or equipment. The good thing is that after you convert to R134 you can top off the system easily and cheaply. and feeds it through an expansion valve. bokoen1 hoi4 the great purge / meryl and maks dancing with the stars / difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. Hmmmm. The Wikipedia explanation for expansions valves cited in Frank's thread says that the gas inside the bulb in the metering valve is the same as the refrigerant in the system. Existing technology: R134a has been in use in the refrigeration industry for very many years, and theres so much information about the safe use of the product. might be due to charge or different compressor and age. There are significant differences between R12, R134a, and R513A, which must be considered when handling, processing, applying, or retrofitting with these refrigerants. Besides, you have a greaseisel. This is 11F off the FSM performance graph - vent should be around 50F. My turn to LOL - greasiesel! With R12 you use to check to see if the site glass was full, if it had bubbles it meant you had a low charge. I don't have the FSM matrix handy for that 123.123, but a 123.133 shows a test rpm of 2,000 - and vent temps between 54f & 66f at 91f to 95f ambient. On the other hand, R12 has a global warming potential of 10,910. Jun 17, 2011. I'm putting r12 back in my system, but all of the valves I can for the application (1990 jeep grand wagoneer) say r134a on them. If you are replacing other system components, such as condensers, driers or hoses, you may need to add more a/c refrigerant oil to the system. So, instead of using R12, other better options include R401b, R134a, R401a, etc. R-12 expansion valves can be re-used, but will not be as efficient as R-134a specific ones because of the slightly different pressure specs of R-12 vs. R-134a. According to Wikipedia, There is such a thing as "r132a" (1,1-Dichloro-2,2-Difluoroethane), however there is no indication of it being a commercially produced refrigerant. Ensure you contact a professional mechanic to do the work for you so you dont end up incurring more costs for yourself. You may be just fine on oil - it depends on what compressor you have & how much oil you put in.A T/C is short for Thermocouple. Once you have replaced the OEM condensor with a PF unit, you will need to make custom hoses to mate with your OEM system. Use a drop light in the engine bay, and check the air path from the front of the car at night. R12 Expansion Valve with R134A charge? - Maverick VerticalScope Inc. All Rights Reserved. At least you do not have 16 ounces in there ( yup seen it before).For now, straighten all of the fins that you can, clean the condensor well, and re-test with the aux fan running. With the oil leaking out and being told all sorts of things about how these compressors don't have a sump etc, I wanted to be on the safe side. Where would I get some basic info on it, I know nothing about it. I'm curiousSo there is work to do, ie performance should be able to be improved. The system has been previously converted to R-134a. Given two identical vehicles, each with the same weighted amount of refrigerant, the vehicle with the R134a has the capability to remove more heat (measured in btus) from the vehicle than the same type of vehicle using the same amount of R12. However, it was found to be a very bad gas for the environment. On this website we are addressing only R134a and not other suggested drop in replacements. ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. maintain the A/C of older cars. But, if your car lacks enough condenser and you have many 100+ degree days then you may want to stick either increase air flow, add another condenser as we mentioned in The Mr. Ice Project or stick with R12. 34 in 70 series w/ R12 in 100+ Tucson, AZ summer heat w/ hd-t, w/ 13B-T is was unbearable about 31 at vent w/ R12. Have a look in the FAQ Section, and look for "Fan clutches & testing them". Super heats are so close, it should not be a major concern.-------------------------The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. Also, since R134a uses synthetic oil, it has a low global warming potential, unlike R12 which uses mineral oil which poses a negative environmental impact. In this study, without the need for major modifications to the bus air conditioner, the variation of the ejector dimensions according to different parameters has been investigated in the case of using the R1234yf, R1234ze(E), or R600a refrigerants, which may be a substitute for R134a as a refrigerant due to . When you add fluorescent tracer dye to with the refrigerant oil it helps to track down leaks that push oil out of the system. Operating Pressure/Temperature Differences The pressure/temperature curves for R-1234yf and R-134a are very similar. How is the vent airflow?I would jumper the aux fan & check the performance. The larger line at the expansion valve is the suction line. The ARPA Zone/Open Membership Discussion Forums. Does it matter - assuming both are new & uncontaminated? You will be fine with a 134a-compatible TXV running R12. System has been working fine for a year. -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a, Hi pdrayton- If you can remember the oil capacity that you found in all your research and post that, then bohica and others can have a better idea if you have too much; see if you can find that info! The newer valves and switches will work with both refrigerants. I don't believe it is but I had a service guy tell me it needs to be done. Could that be screwing up the systems performance?Anyway, when I installed the system, the new TXV (is that short for expansion valve?) And, unfortunately a small high side pressure gauge on a short hose. The condensor airflow drops off as the fan clutch dies slowly. PDF Tecumseh Guidelines for Utilization of R134a R134a and R12 are both refrigerants used in vehicle air conditioning systems. R134a refrigerant fittings are different size. ). I cleaned the evap as best I could, if that is what you are getting at. american sniper longest shot; how to adjust sunsetter awning arms; pastor jeremy roberts texas. The OEM spec is 2300 rpm @ 12.6v (engine stopped fully charged battery). Miscibility with oil: R12 can be mixed with the compressor oil no matter the operating condition. 1.5 ounces - hmmm. Figure 2 shows the different phases and pressures the refrigerant . This is due to many facts: R134a refrigerant is about 10% less efficient in moving heat than R12! You may have heard of a friend that did the job himself with borrowed equipment and 12 or 16 ounce cans of refrigerant. 4.3 out of 5 stars 491. A capacity curve is shown in figure 2 for relative capacity of R134a vs. R12 for evaporating temperatures from 0F to 50F. R134a vs R12 refrigerant? It is a haloalkane and hydrofluorocarbon (HFC) refrigerant that has thermodynamic properties, potential global warming for one hundred years, and insignificant ozone depletion. R134a was selected as a replacement refrigerant for R12 because R12 contains chlorine and has a major effect to ozone layer depletion. One thing at a time here, and slowly, the knee is not up to jumping around like I used to at the moment. Agram a retevis rt22 password i bastrop county district clerk records el material que oferim als nostres webs. We consider the the various types alternative refrigerants that are illegal or not approved to be in two sectors: non-flammables and flammables. This drop can affect energy consumption since the plant will operate for a longer period or a larger plant will have to be installed. shown for the parallel flow, aluminum condenser that is listed. This means that it has a high potential of causing depletion to the ozone layer. The major reason for the replacement of R12 with R134a was to curb future greenhouse effects. 2) Frost on the Vents. Mark Baker R-401b is the mixture by weight of 61% R22, 11% R-152a and 28% of R-124. I'm just trying to help you avoid headaches in the long run. CR4P). There is only a temperature switch on these cars as far as I recall, and it just switches on the aux fan. All pre-97 XJs use systems with the same basic operating principle, although the parts do change a bit. Note that passwords are case-sensitive. Therefore, the higher the factor of the chemical (compound), the greater its effect on global warming. . Are you sure you have an R4? The #1 question asked by NEW MEMBERS. The P H and T cond,sat of the HR12 at a T oa of 40 C were higher than that of the R134a, resulting in a higher P e than that for the R134a.