Don't pretend you don't know what I mean. Since then, Western and Eastern Christianity developed separately, under very different social and cultural conditions. Emmanuel Hatzidakis | January 19, 2013. In Russia, the largest figure usually cited for the Orthodox Church is 85 million people (some estimates are as low as 50 million), which means 100 million Russiansmore than half the countryare not affiliated with Orthodoxy. Nicola Yanney, Holy Man of Nebraska, Out of Appalachia: Orthodox Christianity and the Old Regular Baptists, What Do You Believe In? Orthodox Priest Explains Why Many People in the West are Converting to Orthodox Christianity. T he Orthodox Church in the United States has problems. Shortly after the beginning of our own catechumenate as a family, we saw friendsand their familiesbegin journeys towards the East. Conversion involves a change or transformation in vision, direction and heart, one rooted in repentance and the acknowledgement of Our Lord as the One Who is "truly the Christ, the Son of the Living God, Who came into the world to save sinners." The Global Methodist Church welcomes Scott Jones, who led Methodists in Texas and had advocated for the extreme center and staying at the table., Emily McFarlan Miller - Religion News Service. Eastern Christians would hear nothing of it. The basic theological impetus for the ever-virginity of Mary (besides the fact that it is presumably historically true and would have been passed down from the early days of the church) is the fact that Mary was profoundly sanctified by her role as the living sanctuary in which God dwelled (quite literally) for nine months and from whom he Unfortunately most "Orthodox Christian" are nominal even despite their active presence they are nominal because they extinguish the Holy Spirit and do not have a relationship with God, they outwardly seem to be praying but like the Pharisee praise themselves for being 'good with God'. There is world of difference between going Orthodoxy vs staying pagan. Differences over clerical beards, the tonsure, and fasting also exacerbated the growing deterioration of East-West unity. In 1993 I was chrismated and joined the Eastern Orthodox Church, but only lately has it dawned on me that I must have strained friendships over the years, due to my vocal enthusiasm for my adopted church. An Orthodox priest who lectured to standing-room-only crowds at Moscow State once described Orthodox theology to me as "music made in the conservatory," whereas he described Protestant theology as "music made in the honkytonk bars. If you have a specific question about Orthodox Christianity or the Orthodox Church in America, Several factors must be considered when converting to Greek Orthodox Christianity. While reading about the Orthodox Christian tradition is certainly important, it is crucial to stepliterallyinto an Orthodox Christian parish church near you to witness/experience the Churchs worship and fellowship. "It's typically an immigrant faith, so I was really interested in that experience and why it spoke to. All Rights ReservedDesigned by Fr. Around 2-3 months ago I decided that I wanted to convert to Christianity. In this wonderful, 4-minute video, Fr. You haven't "arrived" in this life. And to share why I am not Orthodox. The collapse of the Roman Empire created a power vacuum that was increasingly filled by the growing power of the Roman papacy. John Meyendorff writes that "the Christian faith can in no way be compatible with the notion of sola scriptura." Why do Orthodox Christians keep a vigil at the Tomb of Christ? As with liturgy, conversion to Orthodoxy is hardly a prerequisite for a renewed engagement with apostolic tradition. July 2012 edited December 1969 in Coptic Orthodox Church As an Eastern Orthodox Christian, I am interested in finding out why all of you converts out there converted to the Coptic Orthodox Church, and not any one of the Eastern Orthodox Churches readily available in so many parts of the world. I cant be the only one to have done this. And these prayers are jam-packed. They have not given up the idea of being clergy. She stands firm on her dogmatic and moral teachings. And such a journey can only be spoken of from experience. Women and men who marry into the Orthodox Jewish faith are required to convertand both genders follow an identical process. Discussion online about converts to Orthodoxy in America includes papers and blogging by writers in venues such as Public Orthodoxy of the Fordham Orthodox Christian Studies Center, the allied Orthodox Theological Society of America, and various blogs and social media. He senses that its something much more profound than that, as he is turning into a different person, the adult he is destined to be. Geoff Harvey on Thu, 20/11/2008 - 11:15am. In 858 Photius was appointed as Orthodoxy's new patriarch at Constantinople, replacing Ignatius, who had been exiled and later resigned his duties. Your email address will not be published. There is a myth in Orthodoxy that people only became Eastern Catholics under force by Catholic kings. The so-called Eastern Orthodox Church is actually not one but thirteen "autocephalous" or independent, self-governing churches. On the other hand, there are cases where a person rejects the Church for what I would consider to be erroneous reasons. Nicholas Kim. What do they find so attractive? While evangelicals might be eager to argue there is no biblical warrant for icons, for the Orthodox it is enough that icons have always been a part of church tradition. But the "little guy" is not going through a phase. There are many basic beliefs that Orthodoxy and evangelicalism hold in common: the inspiration of Scripture; the two natures of Christ, the finality and uniqueness of Christ's death on the cross, the resurrection, and our future hope of eternal life. It depends on where you put the emphasis. When I visit prisons where floors are shiny, morale is noticeably higher. Jerusalem, 260,000 One can find people who interpret this ecclesiological exclusivity more leniently; in fact, some would argue that the best Orthodox scholarsGeorge Florovsky and John Meyendorff, to name twowould allow for such leniency. This is the ultimate reason an ultra-Orthodox Jew would turn to Jesus. For the past year or so I have been considering conversion to Orthodox Christianity. Twitter | Today 23 percent of all Orthodox Christians in the United Statesabout one in fourare converts, as are 30 percent of the clergy and 43 percent of seminarians. In the history and theology of Orthodoxy it is startling to observe the nearly complete absence of any mention of the doctrine of justification by faith. I hope so. Why had a group of conservative American Christians converted to Russian Orthodoxy? The pairing of both secular groups with the Orthodox in a religious freedom case is rare they have frequently been on opposite sides on church-state separation issues such as same-sex marriage . It takes awhile to get it, because its gotten by a process of immersion, by soaking in a context of worship. Why have so many Evangelical ministers embraced the Orthodox faith? That is, Orthodoxy's commitment to "right belief" provides a natural link to evangelical concerns. Further, they identify themselves by reference to Constantinople (modern-day Istanbul), the "new Rome" of Emperor Constantine, and to the first seven ecumenical councils of the church. It also must be noted that embracing the faith involves a running to Christ and His Church as the Ark of Salvation, rather than a running away from somethingother than sin. 20). He sailed to Greenland with a priest to convert the people. In contrast, Orthodoxy offers a view of theological authority that is internal and pneumatic rather than external and dogmatic. Who can explain why one has fallen in love with a given person? As I realized what the big difference is, I grew more insistent, Im afraid. Get the best from CT editors, delivered straight to your inbox! I do not wish to antagonize anyone and if there is a place online where I might go to better have my questions answered, please. Russia, 50-85 million The Actual Conversion to Judaism: Conversion to Judaism has a few components, which are undertaken under the supervision of an established beit din: Accepting the yoke of the commandments. Converts to Orthodoxy usually precede their decision with voluminous reading and research, so their friends must endure agitated lectures on church history, ancient heresies, and what words mean. Well, was it so? Moreover, evangelicals have some important lessons to learn from Orthodoxy. Why would a Protestant Christian convert to Eastern Orthodox Christianity? The so-called Photian Schism brought this matter to a head. This gives strength and spiritual joy to her members, true to the Lords words, Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you (Mt. What they objected to was the elevation of tradition to the status of Scripture. * Nicholas reversed the decision, reinstating Ignatius and deposing Photius. Questions & Answers / An evangelical explores the ancient and alien world of the Eastern church. (2 Pet. In the security of the Orthodox Church one finds peace, reassurance. It is not a surprise that many Catholics adhering to traditional values are converting to conservative Orthodoxy. Any vestiges of hope for unity after the estrangement of 1054 were dashed with the pillage of 1204. Because their focus for years was on their theological education (which they may still be paying for) often they end up in a low wage job that they don't love. Others are already involved in a Jewish community. The sacraments. St. Theophan The Recluse On Spiritual Practice. She is committed to the same, unchanging, absolute truth. The rise of Islam after Muhammad (died 632) was likewise crucial. Share your feedback here. As a young convert to Orthodox Christianity myself, I can testify that confession and Communion have filled my life meaning and have directed me when I have felt lost. The sacraments of the Church have helped fill countless young people's lives with meaning in ways that are difficult to find elsewhere. Young teens go through a few years when they are trying to understand their own unique identity and trying to establish it in the face ofwell, it would be one thing if they had to establish it in the face of hostility, because, even though that would be hard, it would be bracing and clarifying. (Of course, for every person insisting that there were no differences, there was another person asking me to explain the differences. Bulgaria, 8 million Young teens go through a few years when they are trying to understand their own unique identity, and trying to establish it in the face of well, it would be one thing if they had to establish it in the face of hostility, because, even though that would be hard, it would be bracing and clarifying. 1:4). There is an organic quality here, and the thing itself is inexpressibly alive. For me it was due to the fact that papal supremacy is a later doctrine, yet I could not become a Protestant because the writings of the Fathers do not agree with Protestantism. Why didn't Henry VIII go Orthodox, and what would happen if he did? All Rights ReservedDesigned by Fr. But that cant be the case with me, so lets press on. Submitted by Fr. Naturally, it is crucial to know what the Church teaches and acquire an Orthodox mindset on the intellectual level, so to speak, but it is equally crucial to grow in identifying with the People of God, the worshipping community, through fellowship. Take Russia as an example: First, the majority of Russians are non-Christian and unevangelized. Karmiris writes, "Scripture and Tradition are equally valid, possess equal dogmatic authority, and are equal in value as sources of dogmatic truth . Inherent in this claim, of course, is the charge that both Catholics and Protestants have lapsed from the true faith into error, if not outright heresy. Reaching for the Transcendent on the Streets of New York, http://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2007/12/icons-will-save-the-world, cool blog entry by Fr Andrew Damick - Christian Forums, http://www.orthodoxresearchinstitute.org/articles/liturgics/athenagoras_remarriage.htm, http://www.oodegr.co/english/ekklisia/marriage_divorce.htm, http://www.oodegr.com/english/ekklisia/marriage_divorce.htm, http://www.patheos.com/blogs/justandsinner/the-church-fathers-interpretation-of-the-rock-of-matthew-1618-an-historical-refutation-of-the-claims-of-roman-catholicism-by-william-webster/. . Conversion to Christianity is the religious conversion of a previously non-Christian person to Christianity. Also, while evangelicals wholeheartedly embrace the full-orbed New Testament descriptions of the work of Christ (reconciliation, ransom, redemption, forgiveness, adoption, etc. Why do people convert to Orthodoxy? Well, was it so? Notify me of followup comments via e-mail. Christimates 1 day ago. But unlike the other two large branches of Christianity, which have spread throughout the developing world, Orthodoxy remains largely confined to Europe. Orthodox Christians viewed the filioque amendment to be contrary to explicit instructions by past ecumenical councils not to change the creeds. Her allegiance to the perennial truths of Christianity is appreciated by sincere seekers. The Orthodox Church is indelibly marked by the One who is its origin and source. already I have lost many people I thought were friends but so be it! Excellent comment Kosmas, I totally concur. Other times it is a youth group or Bible study group inspiring and educating. I have read many things on the internet, as well as a number of books about the Churchs faith, worship and history. Further, Protestants have long enjoyed rich liturgical traditions of their own (see, for example, Bard Thompson's classic Liturgies of the Western Church). For them the fundamental schism occurred 500 years earlierin the year 1054 (more about that below). Rich worship taught the faith to literate and illiterate, peasant and emperor, and its essentially the same as our worship today. Scripture and tradition. In 1993, I was chrismated and joined the Eastern Orthodox Church. In Orthodoxy one encounters the eternal, unchangeable God. Later ecumenical councils at Constantinople (381) and Chalcedon (451) acknowledged Constantinople as the "New Rome" and accorded it "equal privileges" and "equal rank in ecclesiastical matters" with Latin Rome. There was plenty of ceremony and beauty, but without the mainline churches affection for keeping up-to-date. But about this pursuit we can make several observations. It was electrifying. While Protestant evangelicals have never agreed on the precise meaning or mode of the sacraments, they have historically emphasized two related truths that diverge from the Orthodox understanding of the sacraments. John A. Peck, The Apostolic Mission of Journey To Orthodoxy, Orthodox Church in Harbin, China Reopens as an Orthodox Church, "When We Speak of Christ, We Must Start With Christ" - An Interview With Fr. Small bodies of Orthodox believers exist in other places as "autonomous" but not "autocephalous" churches (Finland, Japan, former Czechoslovakia, etc.). All Rights ReservedDesigned by Fr. Its not something you can figure out by studying the Church Fathers. Preeminent among the sacraments are baptism and the Eucharist. YouTube | He states that in Gaul, before setting out towards Rome, Constantine and his army saw a great cross in the sky. As we move constantly between Unity and Trinity in God, so we must move between the parts and the whole in the Church, the whole being infinitely more than the sum of the parts. Why would a protestant convert to Eastern Orthodoxy? In this video, Fr. "More than a . As I realized what the big difference is,I grew more insistent, I'm afraid. Alister McGrath, an intellectual historian and proponent of paleo-orthodoxy, claims that many of the . Included in this liturgy is an anathema on all those who reject icons. They push it down the road that they will be able to transition to that in their new group eventually. Poland, 1 million Different from forms of western Christianity, there is no rationalization or theorization of dogma because its focus is on symbology rather than the literal. They insisted that the Bible interprets itself, and through the Holy Spirit, God instructs its readers in a direct and individual manner rather than binding their consciences to the supposedly reliable teaching of the church. Then C" The strengths of a group draws them but after a while the weaknesses bubble up. Photius then branded the entire Western church as heretical for inserting the phrase "and the Son" (filioque) into the Nicene Creed. Here are a few reasons from this man's personal reflection. Orthodoxy allows divorce in some conditions if I'm not mistaken, and it would have been an easier transition to switch to another powerful church (and become friendly with Russia, etc.). Despite its historical estrangement from Rome, from a Protestant theological perspective Orthodoxy is similar to Catholicism at several points. Conversion may be unnecessary if you're open to a Reform wedding: Reform Judaism permits interfaith marriages, though roughly half of all Reform rabbis still abjure officiating at them. I hope so. Here is an overview of the steps you can take to convert to Orthodox Christianity: Yet, at times there are questions of conscience and matters of principle. After his marriage Vladimir I officially changed the state religion to Orthodox Christianity and destroyed pagan temples and icons. Frederica Matthewes-Green reflects on how new converts to Orthodoxy can sometimes be overzealous. It took me a few years to sense that there was a whole other something going on. Is the church made up of those who have been "regenerated" by infant baptism in an Orthodox church institution, or by those who have experienced new birth and been justified by grace through faith? Has Orthodoxy in these lands obscured the gospel, becoming merely a "cultural" religion thoroughly assimilated to ethnic identity? Orthodoxy attracts seekers with her other-worldliness, with her holiness, with her worship, with her services and sacraments, with the form and content of her religious expression, with her iconography, with her chanting, with her mysticism, with her monasticism, with her life between heaven and earth. One feels that the Church is not just a worldly organization, but a divine-human organism. Most notable are its beliefs about baptism and the Eucharist. You may wish to call the parish priest in advance to introduce yourself and explain that you will be joining him and the faithful of his parish for the first time, although this is not absolutely essential. Because we confess and believe in the one holy, catholic and apostolic Church, this means we are not looking for a Church that fits our own preferences and ideals, but rather one that teaches us what our preferences should be. Most people like to be polite and get along, so they highlight our commonalities. Once inside, a Western Christian experiences sensory overload: the near absence of chairs or pews, dim lighting, head coverings for most women, icons and frescoes covering almost every inch of space on the walls and ceiling, a massive and ornate iconostasis separating the priest and the worshipers, the smoky smell of incense and hundreds of candles burning in memory of the dead, the priest resplendent in his ornate vestments and enormous beard, and worshipers repeatedly prostrating themselves, kissing the icons, and making the sign of the cross. Why Converts to Christian Orthodoxy can be Obnoxious, People who've found their way back to Orthodoxy, Theophan the Recluse on Spiritual Practice. Maybe you have to soak in it for years, till the evidence becomes overwhelming. This book cover is mad, Worship Gospel Heres a clue to a third possibility. Instead, Orthodoxy believes that the church stands above the Scriptures, which is why, as noted, Orthodox believers agree to "accept and understand Holy Scripture in accordance with the interpretation that was and is held by the Holy Orthodox Catholic Church of the East, our Mother." But that was too little, too late. This should trouble evangelicals (as well as other Protestants), especially when it is combined with the Orthodox idea of who constitutes the church and how one enters the church. Fr. Hello all, forgive me if I am posting to the wrong forum. It took me a few years to sense that there was a whole other something going on. Becoming an Orthodox Christian is not easy, nor does it promise great happiness or success in this life. Step Two: Repentance There is no salvation without repentance. Further, the Orthodox reject the idea of inherited guilt; we are guilty only for our own sins rather than for the inborn consequences of Adam's fall. In the opening pages of Book IV of Calvin's Institutes, for example, Calvin refers twice to the famous words of Cyprian (d. 258)so Catholic-sounding to our earsthat "you cannot have God as your Father without the Church as your Mother" (IV.1.1, 4). This is a sufficiently serious reason for reproach: We are right to expect that the Church will point out a path toward God, independently of the jolts and shocks of the epoch; that it will remain,. Oden, for example, who delights in referring to his theological method as "paleo-orthodox," is now working on a comprehensive patristic commentary on the whole Bible to be published by InterVarsity Press. Two theological controversies drove the final wedge between Catholic and Orthodox Christians: papal supremacy and the so-called filioque controversy. Wynona is a Catholic planning to marry an Orthodox man, but as she tells us, "my Catholic parish priest is not giving his consent for this marriage, so it will be held in an Orthodox church.". There is another reason someone should not join Our Church. Albania, 160,000. Those who were clergy in a former denomination have no guarantees they will become clergy in the Orthodox Church. If only you could get them to form two lines.). July 26, 2019 By Fr. The more familiar I became with Orthodoxy by serving in a local parish, on a parish council, and as an altar assistant, the more I saw others approach the Church, test the waters, and walk back out the narthex door. Icons are, quite literally, a "theology in color.". She is not the endshe is the way. Although she is in this world, she is not of this world (cf. Intellectuals, like one of my students at Moscow University, often disdain Orthodoxy as a "medieval mentality." But whether a non-Orthodox person can even be saved is an open question in Orthodox ecclesiology. There is not going to be a restored "Celtic" Orthodoxy or "Anglo-Saxon" Orthodoxy. Although my parents intentionally raised my brother and me without a focus on . During those years of discovery I labored to absorb new ideas and excise stubborn old ones. Their new group who were so "excited" to have them isn't interested/has no role for them as clergy. Its not something you can figure out by studying the Church Fathers. In chrismation, performed immediately after rising from the baptismal waters, the priest anoints the infant with a special ointment, making the sign of the cross on various parts of the body, thus acknowledging the gift and seal of the Holy Spirit. Kind of like large scale serial monogamous people. Although it is difficult to gather firm figures, worldwide Orthodox Christians number about 150 million, with 3 million in the U.S. alonemore than most evangelical denominations. They saw this as a perception skill, something anyone could (with diligent practice) hone; it has nothing to do with emotion. A Aristocles Merarches Joined Apr 23, 2003 Messages 10,031 Reaction score 1 Points 0 Location Pittsburgh Aug 5, 2006 #4 Matthew777 said: Why Are Protestants Converting To Orthodox Christianity? First, Christianity had no doctrine to support the Islamic hypothesis about Jesus' modification into a semi-god. Modern speculation is simply just that, speculation, and . Many people believe the Church is a social group gathering or a place to network with other like minded people. Have something to add about this? After five years or so in the Orthodox Church, Ive seen a lot of friends and acquaintances come home to the apostolic faith. Antioch, 750,000 It must sound like vague, fluffy religious talk (though in my experience it is anything but). I kept finding myself in conversations with nice people who wanted to assure me that this very thing I was so excited about in Orthodoxy is something they have in their church as well. A second theory is that converts of any sort have a tendency to exuberance that is wearying to outsiders. Unfortunately the Eastern organization is founded on control and power. But this really begs another question: "Essential" for what? The beauty and majesty of her liturgical services celebrating the majesty and mystery of God continue to be a major attraction to many seekers of a religious experience that transcends the mundane reality and elevates the spirit to the divine realm. One thinks, for example, of those committed to full ministerial status for women, the centrality of lay ministry and spiritual gifts, charismatically inclined groups, seeker-sensitive churches attempting to reach baby boomers or Generation X'ers with novel worship formats, and so on.