I don't think we've been given enough information to say whether Saruman or Sauron would have won the fight. Gandalf found out that Saruman had abandoned his mission when the White Wizard asked him to join forces with Sauron. 1 What would have happened if Saruman got the ring? Gandalf, however, likely took Saruman's position, not knowing that Saruman had invented the story of it washing out to sea and was looking for the One Ring for himself. Tolkiens complex writings and retcons dont reveal a crystal-clear answer about Saruman arriving first, but if you go by The Silmarillion, Saruman did. Seem's strange when the ring's main purpose was to rule over the rings/leaders? They were basically the teachers pet ones who lived closest to the Valar and did not trouble themselves (except once) with the problems of Middle-Earth. In this scenario, Sauron likely would have recovered his Ring and covered all the lands in a second darkness. Do new devs get fired if they can't solve a certain bug? Middle-earth & J.R.R. I would think that Saruman, a Maia, would be in that category. Today we jump back in time to one of our older videos at one of our What If scenarios! Saruman himself is not directly involved, and only appears again in chapter 10, The Voice of Saruman, by which time he is trapped in Orthanc. Why are trials on "Law & Order" in the New York Supreme Court? The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Performance". No one could even comprehend the length of His existence. She seems to have seriously pondered what she might do if she got hold of the Ring, and she was only an Elf, not a Maiar like Saruman. We look at sections of The Lord of the Rings and Tolkien's letters to answer the question - what would happen if Sauron reclaimed The One Ring? Saruman had decided to abandon his mission as an Istari and join Sauron in subjugating Middle-earth. Thus, the power of the Ring is both direct (like the power of a weapon) and symbolic (like the power of a cult object). If he would have been strong enough to control the ring, what would have happened to Sauron? The Rings of Power finale took viewers on a ride with solved mysteries, reunions, and goodbyes. The cookies is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Necessary". While Frodo and his companions know that Sauron is an embodiment of . There would have been one less Peter Jackson movie. That was a lucky hitand did you perhaps notice that Sauron was more or less single-handedly beating the entire Last Alliance army at that point? What Would Happen if Saruman Got the One Ring in LOTR? That Saruman is nothing like the Stranger who falls from the sky in The Rings of Power. On the other hand, if the Stranger is Saruman, consider that journey and how it makes his transformation all the more tragic. He did not fear Sauron, but rather was forbidden to contest with him directly. After all, they would both want the other one's full and utter . Virginia. In the appendices it mentions the three assaults on Lorien, during the final days of the struggle. In the case of vague powers the One Ring would enhance one's powers based on one's strengths. In Tolkiens work, Saruman went to Rhn, shortly after he arrived in Middle-earth, in factjust like the Stranger. "Saruman would've won if he captured the ring"--Won what? What video game is Charlie playing in Poker Face S01E07? A capable bearer would have all that power, plus whatever native power he or she had to begin with. When he saw Aragorn marching on the Black Gate, he was afraid. Saruman wasnt an elf, or even a man. A couple of points to add to the excellent arguments thus far: This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. In the case of Sauron it increased his ability to deceive people, entice people to his will, made him stronger and faster then he had been, wiser in the use of his raw poweress, "and he could see and govern the very thoughts of those that wore the lesser Rings of Power." (OK, just a Numenorean with the largest army and navy in all of history.) Let's first look at what would happen if Saruman succeeded, and then at his strategy for defeating Sauron. It seems it was a mistake for the Ring to leave Isildur. Saruman was Maia like Sauron. The three created majesty of a different sort, and magnified the loyalty of those who already were loyal, rather than coercing by fear. Saruman was corrupted already so was a good candidate for the One Ring, through him it could exert Sauron's will to enslave all Middle-earth. For one, the Ring wasn't a tool or a weapon of war that anyone could use for anything. How long before Sauron wrung out the truth from Saruman? It only takes a minute to sign up. Any idea what set any of these are from? Tolkein himself said that it would have been a difficult battle, and might have gone either way, but that One of the true great powers could have dedfeated Sauron by using the Ring. The Three were used against Sauron, but indirectly. That he will never do now.". Yet, it's also possible that Sauron would have triumphed and regained the Ring for himself. But there isn't a blind following of obedience in Tolkien at least not with wise and just characters depending on the circumstances. We know that one of the elven rings was gifted to Gandalf. He reasoned that his total control of Middle . So, it seems Sauron is not invincible, even with the ring, much less against it. https://www.patreon.com/thebrokensword-----Also if you want to support in a different way then check out our Teespring page where we upload original designs for our merch! Without Rohan and Gondor, humans would be . This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. I don't think we have enough information to answer this with certainty. The Palantri. He writes about everything from NCIS to Stranger Things to The Walking Dead and everything in between. Meanwhile, Gandalf kept an eye on Bilbo and noticed that he was not aging. In conclusion, if a Maia (Gandalf or Saruman) would get and use the ring, a bitter fight to the end would ensue between the keeper of the ring and Sauron, a fight even more bitter than the one between elves and orcs, Gondor and Mordor, much like an evil kinstrife to the death. Seem's strange when the ring's main purpose was to rule over the rings/leaders? **, And this kind of begs the question - What had been done with the three? I suspect that most of us think Saruman's treachery is so fundamental to Lord of the Rings, that it is almost impossible to imagine the epic without it. If not for Gandalf, Gondor might've fallen to Sauron. Sauron w. They got the identity wrong, but the Stranger felt the direction about Rhn to be accurate. He also had control of the nine kings and such or was supposed to, although didn't Elrond get a ring yet was present at the battle? The first thing you need to realize is just how long a gap there was between the two trilogies. What about orcs, or trolls wielding the rings taken from the dwarves? Anybody else who bore it (non-stop) would eventually be drawn to him, where he would get the Ring back. He also had control of the nine kings and such or was supposed to, although didn't Elrond get a ring yet was present at the battle? Advertisement cookies are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns. Sauron was not a run of the mill foe and an ordinary blade wielded by an ordinary man would not have sufficed. Gandalf and Galadriel both seem to think that they could take the One, and replace Sauron - if they can so could Saruman. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. Saruman would have made a tasty little morsel for Sauron. If Saruman had not been corrupted in the first place, the war might have gone much easier for the Free Peoples. Saruman in the Shire: how long had he been planning it? He believed he could fake an alliance with the Dark Lord while ultimately finding the ring for himself and ruling Middle Earth. Balrogs are intelligent sentient beings. Tolkien Blog - by Michael Martinez Gil Galad, and the last alliance also defeated Sauron, without the help of the Maiar, as well. The orcs likely would have gotten to Isengard the next day or so or met Saruman on the way as he or his image was seen by Aragorn and Company on the evening of the 30th. Had Isuldur done the wise thing, and pitched that sucker in the crack of doom, that would have been it. So if Saruman mastered the Ring, he would become the next Dark Lord of Middle-earth. What percentage of recruits fail boot camp? Does it shoot bolts of kickarse out of it's hilt? Other powerul magic users such as Galadriel, Gandalf & Saruman can use the Ring to increase their power as that is what it was forged by Sauron to do, but it will never truly be completely under their will because Sauron's evil will already exists in the Ring. Rings of Power (and a touch of Wheel of Time), Ignore/Block Essentials, Paid Registrations by. The one ring would have made him more like what he was before he left on his mission to middle-earth, only corrupted and evil. They are not beasts. He wanted to inform Saruman the White -- who was head of the White Council -- that he had found Sauron's One Ring hidden away in the Shire. It allowed him to recover multiple times after his physical body got destroyed. The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power, A THE LORD OF THE RINGS Musical Heads to the UK Stage, LOTR: RETURN OF THE KING Returning to Theaters for 20th Anniversary, 5 Middle-earth Stories the New LORD OF THE RINGS Movies Should Tell, Go On a Journey with THE LORD OF THE RINGS ADVENTURE BOOK GAME, New LORD OF THE RINGS Movies in the Works (Yes, Really), MAGIC: THE GATHERING Headsto Middle-earth with LORD OF THE RINGS Set, Send Sauron a Letter with LOTR Black Speech Keyboard. So what's a few millennia. Heck, the great among the Elves, or even Aragorn, were considered very credible threats by Sauron. Ar Pharazon the Golden defeated Sauron, before he lost the ring, and he was just a Numenorean. Doom to be destroyed and not taken to be used by some great leader. However, Gandalf knew that if he being an extremely powerful Maiar just like Sauron had taken the One Ring, he would become no different than the Dark Lord. Since Sauruman was once justly revered as among the great, by such as Elrond, and even Gandalf, it seems that he might well have been able to use the ring against Sauron successfully. He easily would have had mastery over the ring itself. What is the significance of Saruman's Ring? In the Silmarillion we have Iluvatar's strongest creation falling from grace.In many ways Saruman's fall is the 3rd Age equivalent. His own greed and lust for power turned him to darkness on his own, and Sauron through the Palantir had already turned Saruman into his tool - though Saruman was of no use to Sauron at all once defeated. In any event, a confrontation between Saruman and Sauron seems as though it would not be a closely fought as the one between Gandalf and Sauron described above; Gandalf was able to cast-out Saruman, so it seems as though Sauron would have more easily had the upper-hand in such a contest. Rohan would've fallen to Saruman and wouldn't have been able to come to the aid of Gondor and helped make the final stand against the forces of Mordor at the Black Gate. This one, too, was controlled by Sauron. The content on this site is for entertainment and educational purposes only. Is Taco Bell healthier than other fast food? The White Wizard -- at the height of his power -- could have been a match for the Ringless Dark Lord. Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for LEGO The Lord of the Rings Tower of Orthanc (10237) at the best online prices at eBay! But eventually the Ring would subvert their efforts and bring about evil. Would he have given the Ring back to Sauron or would he have kept the ring and contested Sauron for power over Middle-earth? *shrugs*. Hes lost his way in a search for greater power. Is Gandalf the Gray's power actually limited or did he merely promise to not use it? JavaScript is disabled. After a comment from Gimli, Gandalf adds: "But Isengard cannot fight Mordor, unless Saruman first obtains the Ring. Letter 246 describes a hypothetical confrontation between a hypothetical Ring-bearing Gandalf and Sauron: Confrontation of Sauron alone, unaided, self to self was not contemplated. Keep in mind the Ring doesn't only have Sauron's power in it. We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup, Latest Blog Post: Jacks Bad Movies Black Adam (2022). But now that he was back in Mordor, he was openly . If he didn't get the Truth from Saruman, he could get it from the halflings and if they were dead due to Saruman, capture and question any of Saruman's orcs or men roaming between Isengard and the Black Gate. He aided Frodo but he did not save him or the Quest from certain ruin as Eomer did by attacking the orc band. He said yes!" The pair had met through mutual friends years ago, but had an immediate spark when they reconnected last year. It's a good question. Sorry, memory fails me ATM. He disobeyed his king but he held his loyalty to his people and by doing so he inadvertently saved Middle-Earth. If Saruman had the ring and he learned to master it, he could rule Sauron's armies and servants as it says in The Fellowship Of The Ring. These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. The White Wizard put Isengard at Sauron's disposal until his armies were defeated at Helms Deep and his staff was broken by the resurrected Gandalf. The question of what Saruman would have done therefore becomes moot since it seems inevitable that Sauron would have been the stronger. Orcs are poster children for corruption, and plague the Fellowship throughout the novels. The Ring still wants to be with its true master. As Sauron once was, Saruman, a Maia of Aule, became absorbed in Ring-lore as he studied Sauron's evil works. Tolkiens trilogy its even plastered on the cover of several editions of the books. If Gandalf proved the victor, the result would have been for Sauron the same as the destruction of the Ring; for him it would have been destroyed, taken from him for ever. If he followed the strategy I've mentioned, his fighters would have to deal with the feisty Rohirrim, and would also run the risk of a flank attack from Gondor, before they could even get near Isengard. How might the Ring have helped Saruman in his empire-building? The key thing to note is that Sauron, by the time of the War of the Ring, lacked the ability to take a. I would not be too sure that Sauron would be the victor, as Saruman spent long years in study of ring-lore. What exactly happened to Sauron when the Ring was destroyed? It has been suggested that the reason why Saruman lost access to magic after the . its forging) to end (the . I mean, he was supposed to be powerful ANYWAY was he not? Sauron is the primary villain of The Lord Of The Rings. For these reasons, Tolkien tells us, the Nazgul (powerful though they were) would have hesitated to attack Frodo directly, after Frodo finally claimed the Ring for his own. Had Isuldur done the wise thing, and pitched that sucker in the crack of doom, that would have been it. Saruman used the seeing stones(palintir) to keep up with Sauron, as did Boromirs Father (name slips me now), Sarumaon would be no more than a snivinling fool of Sauron. But Saruman was always too prideful for his companions. He and Nori leave for the land in the east at the end of The Rings of Power season one finale. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. How did Saruman become corrupted? He is, I suppose, the same order of creature as Sauron himself, so could he? But if only one Istar has come to Middle-earth so far, Saruman is a strong candidate. Who is more popular Leonardo DiCaprio or Tom Cruise? When Sauron thought Aragorn had the Ring, he reacted with a swift military offensive. We don't know enough about the powers of the Ring, in the hands of an ambitious wizard how it might have worked as a "devastating weapon" (Letter 246), how, as a symbol, it might in Saruman's hands have affected Sauron's servants and vassals. ncdu: What's going on with this second size column? I know Letter 246 says Sauron himself did not fear the Ring, would not have hesitated to confront a Ring-wielding Frodo, and could easily have forced Frodo to hand the Ring over. I would have thought that they would have been used against Sauron if at all possible while he didnt have the one. It would be a delicate balance. Sauron was stronger than Gandalf in the Lord of the Rings, but it has to be said that there were a few different shapes of both characters. In his actual presence none but very few of equal stature could have hoped to withhold it from him. Still, this is a point to consider. I think Saruman would have kept the Ring and used its real and symbolic powers to contest with Sauron for control over Middle-earth by building up his own empire. The Ring also has his - what does it say? That means Frodo had to destroy the Ring to destroy Sauron for good. First of all: Yes, you probably should watch at least The Two Towers before reading much further: that movie is all about Saruman's plans and schemes.. Having said that, there's a combination of things that have driven Saruman to act the way he does in the Lord of the Rings trilogy. https://www.teespring.com/stores/historyoftheagesAlso here are our other social media links too! The Vanyar were one of the tribes/families of the elves. 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